19 December, 2006

I would like a Dalmatica.

I would like a Dalmatica.

I'll be frank about it. Before the release of the Morrigan's Coat, I always wanted a Dalmatica.

However, the idea of staring at a screen for up to three hours, hoping to get a lucky claim just for the chance of getting the drop, doesn't bode well with me, not to mention having to deal with perpetual competition and the ensuing drama.

To some, that is the cost of obtaining said Dalmatica, although really, as Russta put it, it sure looks like a way of aesthetically saying "I've stood in a zone longer than you."

Frankly, I didn't want to deal with all of that, so no Dalmatica for me. I can live with that.

Doesn't stop me from wanting one, though. ^^

My problem with FFXI's system of gear acquisition, for the most part, is that the old system, for god gear, Dynamis drops, and so on, was very binary- either it dropped, or it did not.

Of course, you can make the connection that more attempts = more drops, which is only fair. However, can we really say that a linkshell standing in Dragon's Aery, with more people mashing their Provoke/Dia/Flash/whatnot macros every 30 minutes means more claims than another?

What about those long streaks of "no-drop" days?

Harkening back to Dynamis, I believe it took Explorer II over a year before we saw a Duelist's Chapeau drop for us. But can you really make the argument that we "progressed" towards getting a Chapeau on the days where none dropped? In the meantime, other linkshells were happily getting their Chapeaus with no real issues whatsoever. Is that, for lack of a better word, "fair?"

People like challenges, however, people also like to see progress within that challenge. It is for that reason that I like the various sea gear (Brutal Earring, Loquacious Earring, Relaxing Earring, and so on) and Assault. While a run doesn't give you that coveted piece of gear, it at least gets you quantifiably closer. You are 6 ancient coins closer to completing that earring, or you are 600 points closer to redeeming that piece of gear. Compare and contrast to say, gods, where if it didn't drop, it was "too bad," "FU, SE!" and end of story.

(On a side note, grammar-nazis out there: just what is the correct use of punctuation for the above?)

I really would like a combination of the two systems. Make multiple, associated ways of obtaining gear. By "associated," I mean being able to work on both routes with a single event.

Right now, the Morrigan's Cuffs and Zenith Mitts are competition for one another (assuming all you're after is the MAB+5). People who want a Cuffs won't want to help out with Mitts and vice versa. Another way of putting it is that progress on Mitts doesn't affect the Cuffs. That doesn't really work at all.

On the other hand, (using Dynamis as an example) if you've already got all the gear you want from Dynamis-Jeuno, why should you sit around conceivably wasting your time, instead of perhaps making some progress towards your Dynamis-Beaucedine gear?

What if, (again, using Dynamis as an example) mobs could drop AF2, but you could also exchange a large number of ancient currency for AF2 pieces? That way, everybody would have progressed a little bit further towards getting their AF2. At the same time, gear could drop, so you still enter Dynamis with eager eyes, waiting for that drop to come. So in the end, if the piece of gear drops, great! If not, at least you can logoff knowing that you are at least closer to your goal than before.

I know the above paragraphs will probably draw fire from the crowd that says "You should be there to help others!" Pigs fly and angels sing, but unfortunately, things don't work that way. People ultimately want to get something out of their time committed to an event. If that satisfaction comes from seeing another person get their gear, fantastic. Unfortunately, there is little else other than that.

Of course, there might have to be some other minor adjustments, like making all currency EX to prevent gilbuyers from simply buying their AF, but hopefully you recognise the intention behind such a system.

I still would like a Dalmatica regardless. Now if only there was a way to exchange "hours clocked camping Aspi/Fafnir" into "Dalmatica."


Jynx said...

You confuse me, You still playing or did you finally quit >.>...suspicous words for someone who doesn't play anymore...then again maybe I'm just out of the loop.

...I'm a social failure on the interweb.

But I also see where you are coming from on the progression part, I would love to see something like that implemented so that not just the lucky but those who put the time into it actually get what they deserve.

Anonymous said...

come back already!


Anonymous said...

"attempts = more drops" is actually not true. The number of iterations of a roll has no influence on the odds that roll.

For example, flipping a coin. The odds of getting heads over tails doesn't change, regardless of how many times you flip. It's always 50/50, every time, ad infinitum.

Which is precisely why the binary drop system sucks; something you otherwise very much nailed on the head.

Tuufless said...

Paul, your interpretation of that statement seems to be that the number of attempts you make affect the chance of the drop, which as you said, isn't true.

In other words, the attempt and the drop are two independent events.

I can see where the misinterpretation came in. I'm pretty sure you knew what I meant though, since you're a programmer. ^^

Just to clarify for everyone else, like the example you gave, the chance of both heads and tails respectively is P = 0.5.

Taking a heads to be a drop, the chance of getting k drops after n attempts would simply be nCk(0.5^n).

For any given k, P(getting at least k drops in n attempts) will always increase as n increases, which was what I meant by the statement, "more attempts = more drops."

Alas, the statement, while true, holds little weight, thanks to the huge deviation SE has programmed into the nature of their drops.

Anonymous said...

Yeah, sorry about that. I realized the nuance in what you were saying a bit after I had posted the comment.

The probable number of true results over multiple attempts is independent of the probability of a true result within the attempt itself.


LadyRikku said...

Rikku's Law on Drop Rate (Aplies to Rikku)

Items Riku Wants will not drop in the presence of a Rikku.

Items (Dynamis) Rikku OVERBID by a Mile will drop to spite me.

Item i dont need (random Lich I come across in Eldime) WILL drop items I dont need. (Praypus)

and 32 Olla Grande Got me a Skofung, where else the 2 time i NEVER been at Olla drops it too. >.>

Go Figure.

Arenzith said...

Very yes. you've effectively conveyed one of the many, many things I despise about raiding.

... and camping NMs for that matter. Which made me think to ask - is there a viable alternative to the moldavite earring? Camping for that thing = HAET. :p

よろしくおねがいします ^^

SeraphPDH said...

Change "Dalmatica" to "Koenig Cuirass" and you have my situation in a nutshell. Fortunately, I have a Valor Surcoat to curb my problems. ^.^

Anonymous said...

You're feeling about Dalma and these other king items is very similar to how a vast majority of endgame players feel. But as someone who has done endgame for almost 3 years on Odin and has a Dalma, I would like to offer you a different take on things in this game in general.

This game and everything about it should be about the journey, not the end result. I love camping HNMs - sitting there 3 hours and chatting or doing work on the side - it's extremely relaxing in the right environment. And if/when that item you've wanted for so long finally does drop, it's the journey that you will ultimately remember. If the "journey" (camping day after day) just isn't fun, then I agree it isn't worth it.

I'm very glad that new Robe and those other items were added. To many, doing HNMs is just about the items and they absolutely hate the concept. Salvage items are extremely difficult to get at this point and the drop rates are rather poor now that we know how everything drops. I think many be will disappointed when they realize it might actually be easier to get a Dalma than a Morrigan Robe, however. But at least Salvage is a blast and everyone has a chance to participate. But once again, those who hate Salvage and just want the item will be just as miserable as they would be camping Fafhogg.

I'm glad to read that your RL situation has straightened out a bit and that you're back enjoying the game.


calipso said...

(this is kinda old but eh I just happened across it :p)

I think anyone can kinda admit ffxi endgame is really messed up.. pops are long, drops rates are abysmal, competition is insane.. in the end, it's just SE's planning to get people to play longer so they make more money.

As someone who's participated avidly in dynamis for a long time, drops are just broken beyond belief. So many runs we end up with pieces that usually goes freelot either because a) no one wants it, or b) it's dropped so many times that everyone and their dog has it. In places like xarc rng, war, even blm drops almost every run, yet in 20 months we haven't had a single pld body or thf hands drop. I always thought dynamis would be a little more "fair" if winning a zone gave you some sort of points that you could put towards an af2 of choice, or coins or something. I love dynamis, but it gets so frusterating watching the same crap drop over and over, when other pieces are practically non-existant. In the end, I think winning a dynamis (especially outlands and cop areas) shows a lot more skill than just going and lotting something if it drops.

As for hnm, sky, sea, etc.. it's the people you're with that will make it break it. Even a 14hr Ulli stint can be fun with the right people...

Sounds kinda lame I guess, but one thing I always try to remember, is that years and years from now when ffxi is long dead, no one's going to care about what pixelated items you had(including yourself); but the people you met and the adventures you had with them will stay with you forever..

I think one of (and the only really) amazing things about ffxi endgame is the friendships and commitments that are formed where people are willing to dedicate so much of their lives to help out their lsmates.. anyone can be a lootwhore, but it takes a huge level of commitment to always be there when people need you. I'm not gonna lie and say it wasn't fun getting my items :P but it's so much more sticking around and watching how happy people are when it's their turn to get theirs and knowing you were a part of that.

(wallotext there, sorry^^;)